Of Course Mother’s Matter – We matter

Elizabeth Marquardt – I am calling you out. This is from one mother to another:

I read your latest article “Do Mothers Matter” and I am left with a sort of “What the heck” head scratching reaction to not only this article but to you Elizabeth.
You seem to think that if you have a child any way other than “the old fashioned way” (heterosexual sexual relations) that your children are going to reject you, or in some way they are going to suffer. So that means all of us who have had children via egg donation or sperm donation we are in some way harming our children.

You go on to imply that in some way if women use an egg donor to create their family, or if they happen to need the services of a gestational carrier that their child is going to grow up missing his or her “real mother”.

Really, all I could think was what planet are you from Elizabeth?

What I know about you: You are the Vice President for Family Studies and Director of the Center for Marriage and Families at the Institute for American Values (IAV) co-authored a report-study titled “My Daddy’s Name Is Donor” You wrote a study based on those children conceived through sperm donation. You make the argument that those kids created through sperm donation struggle with a parental loss when they don't know their biological father. You also go on to say that this can lead to depression, delinquency, or addiction and you assume the same with donor eggs, or gestational carriers.

The problem with this report is that you have no credibility in my opinion because you published non-peer reviewed research under the guide of the IAV. Those who are indeed established academics in the field of donor conception have misgivings that are quite serious about your methods of research because your ability to come to any sort of rational conclusion are not supported by your findings.

But really our kids who are conceived via egg donation are going to miss their real mothers, and they are going to become depressed, become juvenile delinquents, and become addicted to drugs, alcohol, gambling, sex, food, etc… I mean really?

Here’s a clue Elizabeth – guess what else leads to depression, addiction, and delinquency? Parents who are unavailable emotionally, bad parents, divorce, abusive parents, unwanted pregnancy, as well as those kids who undergo trauma of some sort, those children who are from disadvantaged socio-economic circumstances, situations where kids undergo incredible stress, genetics and the list goes on.

I for the life of me cannot fathom that those kids who are intentionally and mindfully brought into this world by non-traditional methods are going to suffer or have some sort of negative impact upon their mental health. I just can’t wrap my head around that.

In reading your article I think of my child who I just love so much. The kid we brought into this world mindfully.  The one we waited for, for many many years. The child we invested so much time, money, emotion, love, and work.

The baby that told us at age two “Momma I chose you, I waited in line for a long time”. 
Is this kid missing his “genetic parent” or to take it a step further – “Is this kid missing his genetic mother?” I don’t think so. I am right here. Live, in the flesh, caring for him, cheering him on at school, helping him with his homework, taking care of him when he’s sick, comforting him if he’s scared, tending to his scrapped knees, happy, or sad – I am the one who is his go to when he needs something.

Not his egg donor.

What I don’t understand Elizabeth is how can you even think for two seconds that somehow my son’s egg donor – genetic parent – genetic mother, whatever you want to call her is even remotely more important than myself? I mean come on, you are a mother yourself think about all you do for your child. Well guess what? I do the same. I care for my child, raise him in a loving and stable home, prepare him for the world, provide him a spiritual education, provide food, clothes, a roof, and offer him unconditional love.

Are kids conceived via egg donation going to have questions? Of course they will. It’s human nature. Some are going to care about this more than others. My kid is curious. He wants to know if his egg donor is nice. Does he look like her? Does she like coffee and chocolate like he does? Do they share the same allergies? He is also going to tell you that he doesn’t spend his every waking moment wondering what she’s doing. It’s because he has a mother and his life is full living his life. The way it should be. Does he want to meet her one day? Yes and why is that? He wants to say “thank you”. He says he wants to complete the circle and thank her for helping us have him. It’s certainly not because he misses her. He doesn’t even know her, she contributed a single cell, a blue print if you will, she helped give him his start.

I answer every question he asks me about his origins. There are no secrets in our home. He has access to his egg donor’s profile, and we happen to have a great relationship with our Reproductive Endocrinologist Dr. John Hesla who he can ask questions about her any time he chooses. But does my kid feel like he’s walking around half of a person or the shell of a person because he doesn’t interact or know his egg donor? No not at all. Does that sound like a child who is missing his genetic parent? I don’t think so.

Personally, I feel strongly that how a child is conceived has nothing to do with how they are going to “turn out” or grow up as adults. It’s what happens after they are born.
So let me ask you Elizabeth, after reading all of this, and being a mother yourself, do you really think kids conceived via egg donation or embryo donation are going to miss their egg donor or to take it a step further their genetic parent?

The Role Of A Therapist During A Donor Egg Cycle

This essay was written by Carole Lieber Wilkins, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist in private practice in West Los Angeles. A specialist in the field of reproductive medicine, adoption and family building options since 1986, she became a founding member of Resolve of Greater Los Angeles in 1987 and served on the Board of Directors in various positions for the next 14 years.

Carole is first and foremost a mother via egg donation and adoption. Carole is also an active member of The Mental Health Professional Group (MHPG) which is a part of ASRM. This group is a multidisciplinary group that formed in 1985 with the full support of the American Society for Reproductive Medicine (ASRM). Its mission is to promote scientific understanding of the psychological, social, and emotional perspectives of infertility patients

During a discussion about the roles therapists fulfill with intended parents during DE cycles Carole took the time to write an essay talking about what exactly that role is. - Marna Gatlin

I have been meeting with patients pursuing gamete donation, embryo donation, and surrogacy for many, many years. I don't call them, nor do I consider them to be evaluations or assessments, despite the fact that the clinics do tell patients they need a “psychological evaluation” before proceeding. My attempt to educate clinic staff has not been successful in changing their language, thus, patients often come in defensive and angry. I attempt to put them at ease immediately by telling them the meeting is not an evaluation and it is not my job to decide whether or not they are worthy of becoming parents. Their response is visceral. Shoulders drop, faces relax, and they breathe. Then we can proceed.

I tell patients I see my role as educative in two ways: to talk about the ways in which building a family thru gamete donation is DIFFERENT from having a family the easy and inexpensive way; and to play the role of child advocate.

I tell patients that I try to represent the only person in the family building equation who has no vote, but is the sole reason for the endeavor—the unborn child. The children resulting from all the procedures have no voice in how it all happens, (as no children have a vote in how they are conceived.)

I try to put a spin on what we DO know about how individuals feel who come into families thru donor conception, surrogacy, etc., regardless of the single/married, gay/straight constellation of the family.

We DO know some things that make healthy families and we DO know now from studies of DE and DS offspring how people feel about their means of conception and all that goes with it.

We DO know that it is normal and common for people to grieve the loss of a genetic link to an offspring.

We DO know how most infertility patients feel after being in treatment for a period of time.

Many have recently written about “the brave new world” we are involved in, but I wonder when it will stop being a brave new world. Yes, the stakes keep getting higher as technology tests our ethical boundaries of what can be done, but should it be done. However, surrogacy is now 30 years old. Donor sperm has been around forever and the first child born thru egg donation is now 27. Many people now have “children” through gamete donation who haven’t been children in a long time. In fact, some parents through gamete donation are now grandparents. It’s not that new and we DO know many things to be true.

With some exceptions, the report I send to a doctor reflects the discussion of the many complex issues that accompany complicated family building. Gamete donation families are special needs families, as are adoptive families, and many other kinds of families. This requires unique preparation and knowledge. Special needs are not bad; they’re just special, aka “a little extra.” I call it parenting plus. These families have all the stuff “regular” families have, with a healthy dose of EXTRA.

Even in a brief consultation, we can get a rough idea of whether there is psychopathology (vs. neurosis, thank goodness, or surely most of us would have never become parents), substance or spousal abuse or other issues that would make us significantly concerned about bringing a child into the household. In those cases, I recommend further counseling or whatever is needed. But most of the time, I think, our patients are as unqualified to parent as anyone off the street, only now, because they have been required to see us, they are much better educated about certain aspects of family building and parenting.

When patients leave my office, I hope they have more questions than when they walked in.

I hope they are thinking about gamete donation differently than when they resentfully made the appt. (if required by physician).

I hope they no longer think gamete donation is no big deal.

I hope they are thinking about what it would be like to grow up in a home where your parents didn’t have enough respect to tell the truth about who you are, or where parents were too scared to tell the truth.

I hope they think about the fact that it won’t matter what other people say about gamete donation as long as they as parents are fierce protectors and advocates for the family they created and how they created it, thereby claiming children as one’s own.

I hope my patients leave my office knowing that infertility is a lifelong disease that goes into remission for long periods of time, and then springs up again at the least expected moments.

I hope my patients leave my office armed with the response to the dreaded exclamation:
“I don’t have to listen to you because you’re not my real mother!!”

I want them to leave my office having shifted from being terrified their kid will someday say that to them, to looking forward to it because they are prepared and ready to help guide their child through the muddy waters of trying to figure out who they actually are.

All that in an hour? We do what we can with what little we are given.

Carole LieberWilkins, M.F.T.
Los Angeles, CA
(310) 470-9049
www.LAfamilybuilding.com

Marquardt's off the mark

14 November 2011
By Susan Kane

DI-adult and parent by DI

Appeared in BioNews 633

I have no doubt that Elizabeth Marquardt's report reflects the feelings of the donor-conceived people that she studied. However, since true scientific study of donor-conceived people is not currently possible, her claims must be qualified. 

Unlike adopted people, the vast majority of donor-conceived people alive today do not know that they differ from anyone else. It is impossible to say what most donor-conceived people think. They do not know who they really are – certainly, we cannot find or study them.

Lacking a true random sample, we can only study those DI (donor insemination) adults who were told the truth by their parents. This minority falls into two further significant groups – those who were told the truth as young children and those who were told as teenagers or adults. Most DI adults alive today fall into the latter category.

We know from adoption research that 'late discovery' of genetic origins is traumatic for children and the adults they become. It is because of this documented trauma that adoption practices were changed from the secrecy that prevailed before the 1960s to the openness (at least about the fact of being adopted) that we see today.

At the present time, in the United States, if you apply to adopt and state that you plan to lie to your children about their origins for their entire lives, you will be told to learn more about adoption and the best interests of adopted children. Indeed, from my experience of American social workers, most would consider your intention to lie to your children about their origins a form of child abuse.
And yet, the infertility industry considers this a perfectly reasonable stance for parents using donor gametes. I can only conclude that infertility specialists, as a rule, are not friends with psychologists. Whether this is a by-product of their busy lives or perhaps an intentional rejection of the social sciences is difficult to say. However, the result of this highly unfortunate miscommunication between people who understand cell structures and people who understand human beings is that donor-conceived people are back where adoptees were fifty years ago – confused, traumatized and angry. And rightly so: confusion, trauma, and anger are appropriate psychological responses to being lied to by those closest to you.

I know from the stories of those in PCVAI (People Conceived Via Artificial Insemination online group) that late discovery often occurs in traumatic contexts. In our group, it is not at all uncommon for people to report that they were given the information that their father is unrelated to them during warm family moments, including after a divorce, during a vicious family fight or within days of their father's death. The absolute idiocy of keeping these kinds of secrets from children is well highlighted by these examples.

If Marquardt wants to isolate the effect of donor conception on outcomes, she must compare apples to apples. You cannot compare the psychological outcome of a 20-something donor-conceived adult who was told about DI two days after her father died to an adoptee who has known his identity from birth.

You cannot compare a donor-conceived adult raised in a family where assisted conception was considered a shameful secret to an adoptee raised in a family that affirmed adoption as a positive choice.

The data tables at the end of this study are inscrutable. Data is supposed to be stated in percentages, but at least one critical question ('at what age did you learn?') has 'percentages' that add up to 198. Almost 14 percent of the 'donor-conceived' participants were included because they 'thought they might be' donor-conceived. Marquadt did no regression analysis to examine the effect that late discovery might have had on participants' feelings about donor conception. These are the kinds of basic data problems that peer-review and the formal publishing process are meant to address.

It is entirely possible that the intentionality of DI is a problem for DI adults. A study that compared apples to apples might find this result. A peer-reviewed study that was not paid for by an advocacy organisation dedicated to preserving the traditional family would be even more helpful. This particular study is so rife with other possible sources of trauma and political bias that I could not support its conclusions even though I welcome the data collected on the feelings and experiences of its participants.

In some areas, such as whether lying to your children is harmful, the answers are known. Other areas, such as the question of 'intentionality', are truly new frontiers. We must remain curious and open to whatever the data tells us, but poorly executed social science only clouds the waters.

It is a loss for all of us that Marquardt chose to write a politicised report with questionable conclusions rather than doing the real research that is so badly needed in this area.

Donor Porn

By:  Marna Gatlin, Founder, PVED with Carole Lieber Wilkins, MFT

Controversial title wouldn’t you say? When I first heard it and then wrote the words down it made my face turn red and giggle like a school girl.

Some of you are wondering where this is going and the mere title of this blog post is making you shift uncomfortably in your chair and looking around to see whose looking, right? Yeah, I thought so.  But you know what?  That’s the way it is when you engage in donor porn.

What the heck is donor porn you might ask?  Well, hang on; I’ll get to that in a minute. But first I want to set the scene (my guess is this could be any of you).   

You’ve decided to make the leap and build your family through egg donation. It’s taken a while but you are truly at a place and you’ve said to yourself “I can do this! I am ready!  Let’s go!” And while you might be excited, scared and hopeful the reality of selecting an egg donor has hit you right between the eyes and frankly, it’s overwhelming. So what do you do?  You do what any resourceful person does when they are practicing their due diligence – you do your research and begin looking at egg donor agency donor data bases, or if you are lucky your clinic has a nice data base that their patients got you to look through.

It may start innocently enough – you have kind of an idea in your head what you are looking for in an egg donor as you being your search.   The first egg donor looks lovely; you may like the shape of her eyes, and her smile.  However, as you scan her profile you see she’s only 5 feet 2 inches tall and the shortest person in your family is 5 feet 8 inches tall.  How would you explain to your extended family a really short child? So you pass on her and you go to the next donor. 

The next donor is the right height but her nose and the shape of her face is much different than yours, and you really wanted an egg donor who was attending college as that’s important to you.  Time has passed and before you know it, its midnight and you’ve looked over twenty egg donor profiles and you are just as unsure as you were when you first sat down. The smart part of your brain tells you to turn in for the night and you do – before you know it, it’s time to wake up and face the day and with a fresh set of eyes you find the right donor for yourself and before you know it you’ve called your clinic reserved your egg donor and you are well on your way to cycle.

Or are you?

All day long you feel really great about your choice.  You can’t wait for the two of you to begin cycling, taking medication, your donor to have her egg retrieval and you to have your transfer!  This is really going to happen and you are so excited! Until for some ungodly reason you decide to take one more peek at the donor data base you selected your donor from and before you know it you are in the data base pouring over egg donors again and you see another donor that you think you might like better.  The wheels begin to turn and you begin to second guess your choice, and what if yourself.  Your partner may even see you at the donor data base and might even say “Hey what are you doing? I thought we already agreed up our egg donor.”  And you feeling a tad sheepish may just smile and say “Oh of course we did I was just looking…”  And you both go to bed still feeling good about your egg donor choice, but in the back of your mind you might be wondering….

This goes on for days --- The overwhelming desire to continue to look at your clinic or agencies data base and pour over donors especially after you have made your donor choice and committed to your donor selection.  There’s a term for it – it’s commonly referred to as “Donor Porn”

Why do we do it? 

We ask ourselves as we continue to go back and look at the donor data base over and over looking and possibly hoping for that new special, perfect donor that our clinic or agency might just have.  Some days we can’t help ourselves as we fret, worry, and pour over donor profiles like we would a legal contract, or our medical files. For other’s it’s a powerfully heady experience – One mom said to me “It’s like window shopping to the extreme, to try on someone else’s genetics is a really big deal, and I wanted to be really sure.  This isn’t like buying a car you know.”

I commonly refer to this as “The Grass is Always Greener” syndrome.  You know the saying, “The grass is always greener on the other side” I think some intended parents get caught up in that through the chase of the perfect donor. When in reality their donor choice is probably the best choice for them.

Because this topic is so fascinating to me I contacted my friend and colleague Carole Lieber Wilkins a therapist based out of Los Angeles, California and this was her take on “donor porn”.

"The question is:  How do you choose someone to replace yourself?  The incessant searching for the perfect DNA replacement is a donor search gone awry.  Can there ever be a perfect candidate?  Even if you find a donor whose genetic makeup does not have many of the flaws yours has (diabetes, cancer), she doesn’t have your essence.  Put simply, she isn’t you.

Very frequently we mistake selecting a donor for selecting a child.  Your child will not be a clone of a donor anymore than your child would be a clone of you.  But we imagine if we select someone beautiful, our child will be physically attractive.  We mistake SAT scores with general intelligence.  How do you evaluate a donor’s EQ, her emotional intelligence, vs. her math scores on standardized tests?  We can’t.  So we keep going back to look again.  And again.  And again. "

The first step to recovery is what?  Admitting we have a problem right? So just admit it -- We’ve all engaged in it.  We’ve all done it.  And really don’t shake your head at me, we know you have. So how do we stop and become secure in our choices?

"Grieve your losses first.  Say goodbye to your imagined child because that’s the one you are hoping this fantasized donor will help you create.  Let go of the perfect embodiment of your partner and you.  Look for a donor you think you’d like to hang out with at Starbucks.  Try to select not a replacement for you, but someone you might be proud to know as your daughter (because, let’s face it, most ovum donors are of an age that they could be our daughters).  Select agencies that provide you with complete enough photos and profiles that you feel a sense of her and seem like you’d like her.  Many intended parents opt to meet their donors and discover they very much like these women as people.

You would most likely not select a porn queen to hang out with at Starbucks (with no offense at all to those in the adult film industry!)   So why choose her to help give you the material you need to complete your family?  Once you have grieved, and re-set your priorities, you’ll find you have lost the need to constantly keep going back to the Internet to look for the “perfect one.”"

Now we realize this is easier said than done.  But hopefully after reading this blog post a time or two you will get where we are coming from.  You will come to understand that there really is no replacing you.  There just isn’t.  You are unique and special in our own right.  And while we totally understand your why you might second guess your choices please don’t – believe in yourself, believe that the choices you are making regarding your donor selection are the right ones to make for you family.  And if you take anything away from this blog – remember this one small but important piece to all of this:

The baby you are meant to have is indeed the baby you are meant to have.

So in closing – Just close the page and just say no to donor porn.

About Carole -- Aside from being one of the most talented and brightest therapists on the planet Carole loves what she does, she takes the scary out of all things third party, and is the go to person regarding disclosure issues and having honest conversations with with you to help you have honest conversations with your child's origins.  Carole has written several pieces about talking to kids about egg donation, and has aided many many individuals become comfortable, and make peace with infertility issues especially revolving around third party reproduction.

Personally we at PVED think Carole is the bee's knee's and find her knack for helping others out of this world.

If you are in the greater LA area and would  like to contact Carole for a therapy session you can find her here: http://www.lafamilybuilding.com/index.html

Her official bio below.

Carole Lieber Wilkins is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist in private practice in West Los Angeles, providing individual, couples and group counseling. specialist in the field of reproductive medicine, adoption and family building options since 1986, she became a founding member of Resolve of Greater Los Angeles in 1987 and served on the Board of Directors in various positions for the next 14 years.


Ms. Lieber Wilkins is well known for her work regarding disclosure of information to children, having helped hundreds of patients feel comfortable about talking with their kids about how they built their families. Many clinics and practitioners around the world distribute to patients her groundbreaking article, Talking With Children About Their Conception. She has lectured locally and nationally, on many subjects related to infertility. She has been the keynote speaker at several Resolve symposia, and a presenter at the professional meetings of the American Psychological Association, The American Society of Reproductive Medicine, Organon Nurses Symposia and Kaiser Hospitals.


Carole is a member of the American Society of Reproductive Medicine Mental Health Professional Group, California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a professional member of both Resolve and AFA. In addition, her own experience creating a family through adoption and ovum donation deepens her understanding of the challenges others face when exploring these complex family building options.

PVED SURVEY DESCRIBES LANGUAGE OF DONOR CONCEPTION

A recent survey of parents via ovum, sperm and embryo donation conducted by Britta Dinsmore, Ph.D. and Carole LieberWilkins, M.F.T. has yielded responses indicating family preferences when using language about donor conception.

204 respondents answered questions about how they refer to the person who contributed gametes to help them create their families.  The survey also asked how parents refer to the children being parented by donors, as well as the children that may have been created through the donor’s contribution to other recipients.

The majority of respondents were partnered.

• 34 were single. 
• 2 respondents were gay/lesbian; the remainder was heterosexual. 
• 163 conceived their children through ovum donation alone.
• 24 with the help of both donor sperm and donor eggs.
• 13 received donated embryos.
• 4 received donor sperm alone. 
• 5 respondents indicated their children were born through surrogacy.
• The remaining majority carried their own pregnancies.

In response to the question:   By what term do you refer to the people who contributed eggs, sperm, or embryos to you?

• 76% stated that they refer to the genetic contributor as “donor”, “our donor”, or “egg/sperm donor”.
• 3 respondents refer to donors by their first names.
• 1 calls the donor a “helper.” 
• 2 call the (family) donor “aunt” or “uncle.”
• 5 people sometimes refer to the donor as the “genetic mother,” “genetic father,” “genetic parents,” or “genetic contributors.”

The survey asked how parents refer to the children being parented by the donor. 

• 44% said they call these children the “donor’s children”.
• 10% refer to the children as “half siblings”.
• 7% call them by their names.
• The remainder fell into the categories of “genetic half siblings”, “bio sibs”, or those who did not know whether or not the donors had children. 

The survey also asked how parents refer to those children that may have been created by the donor’s contributions to other parents.

• 7% refer to these children as “half siblings” or “half siblings.”
• 5% refer to them as “genetic siblings” or “biological siblings,”
• 5% refer to them as “other children” and
• 5% are unsure (either hadn’t thought about it yet or didn’t know if their donor had contributed to others).  The remaining responses were divided among “genetic half siblings,” “donor sibling,” or “donor half sibling.” 

The issue of language referring to both social families and genetic families is an ongoing discussion among professionals in the field of reproductive medicine, and more importantly, those of us living with the duality of being family without genetic links.    This preliminary survey confirms that genetic contributors are overwhelmingly referred to as donors and not with vernacular referring to parenthood. 

It's Really Not Any Of Your Business How I Created My Child -- Is It?

I was at the lab waiting to get my blood drawn  (you know the yearly lipid panel, thyroid, sugar screen.) and sitting across from  me was a woman obviously pregnant who was clearly in her mid to late 40's, and next to  her another woman (who I will fondly refer to as Ms. Nosey Pants or NP for short) about the same age -- all of us waiting to have our blood drawn. We all smiled at one another  making the usual and customary small talk about the weather, how long we are going to have to wait, would summer ever get here, blah blah blah.

A few minutes passed and Ms. NP  pipes up and says "IVF?"  And the pregnant woman shuffled her feet, shifted uncomfortably in her chair,  made eye contact with me and then looked at her seat neighbor and said "Yep, we needed some help."  NP woman nodded and for a second I thought maybe she was going to smile and high five this mom to be and say congratulations, or right on, or something positive.  But no, she narrowed her eyes and said:

"Your egg? or donor egg?"

This poor pregnant mom to be visibly blanched.  And me being me, (well those of you who know me, I just speak my mind and say what I feel) I naturally spoke up and I leaned forward and I said:

"Really?  Why do you ask?"

The look of relief on the pregnant mom's face said it all, and just in the nick of time her name was called and she was up out of that chair faster than you could say Intra Cytoplasmic Sperm Injection. This left me of course to contend  with Ms. Nosey Pants.

Now if this had been any other subject I probably would have left well enough alone after all, "NP" has stuck her nose abruptly into the nearest Readers Digest and was clearly not comfortable herself and doing her best to ignore me. Not being one to leave well enough alone I said "May I talk to you?"  And NP lowered her Readers Digest and said "Are you talking to me?"  As if she'd never seen me before.  And I smiled ever so sweetly and I nodded my head emphatically and said "Yep, I wanted to know if I may talk to you."  The Readers Digest went down upon her lap, she crossed her arms and said "Sure if you'd like what's on your mind?"  And so I smiled and stood up and walked over and took the chair next to hers.  And realizing this made NP even more uncomfortable I said "Really, it's okay, I don't bite."  And smiled again.

I had in mind what I wanted to say which was "Listen, mind your own business and stop going around making others uncomfortable because you are nosey parker."  But I didn't -- I really wanted to know the psychology behind why people ask personal questions. So I just said benignly, "Why did you ask that mother to be if she used her own eggs or donor eggs?"  NP blinked for a few seconds and then said "I was just curious I guess, she looked a little old to be having a baby."  I replied with "Do you have children?"  And she shook her head no, and went on to say that she never wanted children. I nodded and said "I understand that."  She asked me if I had children and I said "Yes, I have one child that I had through egg donation."  This woman turned white and then red, and began to stammer about not thinking before speaking and she was sorry. I told her it was okay, she shouldn't feel weird and that everyone is on their own path in regards to their family building choices.  And so we started this conversation that began sort of in a stilted way -- she asked many questions about egg donation, and why people would choose this way to create their families.  She went on to tell me that when she sees older women and they are pregnant she almost always assumes they used an egg donor and to her that just seemed to weird.  We ended the conversation with me telling her that perhaps because she has no maternal desire to become a mother that any way of family building would be foreign  to her and she agreed.  Her name was then called and she shook my hand, I handed her my card, and off she went.

Shortly after, the pregnant woman walked out of the lab area and past me and she paused and all of the sudden her worlds just came tumbling out --  "Thank you so much, we did do IVF, and I am older and this is donor egg but I am actually a gestational surrogate for my sister.  I have had three kids, and my sister lost her uterus to cancer so I am carrying her egg for her and I didn't feel like launching into the whole explanation with a stranger, it's her story to tell I am just helping her because I love her."  By the time she finished her explanation her eyes were wet.  I immediately stood up and hugged and said to her that she was doing one of the most gracious and giving things ever and she didn't owe anyone an explanation about anything.  We exchanged names and she went on her way.  By now it was my turn to be poked by the lab vampires.

While I sat in the lab I got the same tech I always get.  She's phlebotomist who's studying to become a midwife -- lovely lady who's 40 and really good at what she does.  After we exchanged pleasantries and I commented on how big her kids were getting from the photo on her wall I blurted out "In your travels with drawing blood from pregnant women do you often wonder if the older pregnant women who sit in your chair are using donor egg?"  And my tech shrugged and said "No, not really, and even if I did, I'd never ask because it's non of my beeswax"  I nodded and smiled and shook my head and said "Of course." And she didn't ask me why I asked the question she just continued to draw blood -- before I knew it I was finished and on my way.

Driving home the conversation between the pregnant mother, NP, and myself continued to play over and over in my head -- it was bothersome to me so much so I continued to think about it for several days.  If I met someone who was bald, especially a woman would I ask her if she had Cancer on the premise that most bald women who don't wear scarves probably are bald due to chemotherapy?

Um no.

How about a woman who's face was bruised -- would I ask her if she was a victim of domestic violence?

Um no.

What about someone who was in a wheel chair, or someone who was clearly disabled?  Would I say "Are you paralyzed?" or "Is your child mentally retarded?"

No, no and no.

We don't ask each other how much money we make.  The last person who asked me who I voted for in the presidential election got an "thanks but I don't discuss politics with anyone outside my family". And we certainly don't discuss who got on top, or anything else connected with sex with complete strangers do we?

So why is it okay for complete strangers to ask  "Your egg or donor egg?" 

It's not -- because at the end of the day it's really none of your business how I created my child regardless of how grey my hair is, or how old I may appear to you.

Are we clear? 

Thank you

Family StoriesWorkshop Talking to Children about Donor Origins

Family StoriesWorkshop Talking to Children about Donor Origins

THIS WORKSHOP IS FOR PARENTS, parents-to-be and professionals who would like to learn how to talk to children about their family origins.

PROFESSIONALLY LED WORKSHOP DEVELOPED BY JUDITH KOTTICK, LCSW

Judith Kottick, LCSW (http://www.jkfertilitycounseling.com/)
Director of Fertility Counseling and Consulting Services, a psychotherapist
and recognized expert in the field of reproductive counseling, consultant to
fertility programs in the tri-state area with a specialty in egg donation and
gestational surrogacy.

ADDITIONAL SPEAKERS
Nancy Freeman-Carroll, Psy.D, Psychologist and Psychoanalyst,
adjunct faculty at Pace University, Yeshiva University, Rutgers University.

Mindy R. Schiffman, Ph.D, Clinical Psychologist and Sex Therapist,
NYU Fertility Center, Clinical Instructor, NYU School of Medicine.

Allegra Heart Epstein, High school student, donor egg child.

Date Saturday April 2, 2011
Time 8:30 a.m. – 1:00 p.m
Place Unitarian Church
67 Church Street
Montclair, NJ 07042
Please return registration form and check to:

Judith Kottick, LCSW, 110 Christopher Street, Montclair, NJ 07042

Seating is limited. Pre-registration strongly recommended. Payment must be received in order to confirm your registration. Cancellations must be received at least three days prior to the event for a refund. For additional information call (973) 746-7370 or email judykottick@comcast.net.
Babysitting: $10/child for the morning; children must be registered in advance.

When We Change Our Minds Regarding Anonymous Egg Donation

Back in 1999 when my spouse and I decided together to find an egg donor and have a child through egg donation the only way we could do that was through anonymous egg donation. I remember being terrified of actually knowing our egg donor.

The insecurities I had were huge and many. “Would my child love her more?” “Would my husband love her more?” “Would she want any child I had” “Would my child want to seek her out and know her?” “Would she want to become a member of our family?” “Would my in-laws love her more and regard her more of my son’s mother than myself?” The list went on and on and on. My anxiety dreams were just way over the top. It was crazy.

In late February of 2000 we were cycling, the first week of April we had the retrieval and transfer. By the middle of April I knew I was pregnant.

An odd thing occurred during my cycle – the donor and I exchanged letters and cards. Of course they went through the clinic kind of like mail that’s exchanged in prison. Everyone reads it and censors what they feel isn’t appropriate. But the letters and cards continued to exchange until I gave birth in December of 2000.

As a new mother I was so busy with caring for a newborn. Between those early round the clock feedings, teething, potty training, and diaper changed the thoughts of our egg donor became a faded memory. I wasn’t preoccupied with her anymore; I was preoccupied with being a mom, and the part of using an egg donor to have my child wasn’t forefront, it was raising my child.

My child like most children asked lots of questions. There were hard questions, easy questions, funny questions, and thoughtful questions. But when he began to ask questions about his egg donor sadly I couldn’t give him many answers. The only information I could give him was the profile I received from my clinic. Now at the time I thought the information provided was richly detailed, thorough, and complete. However, as I began to answer my child’s question I realized just how lacking her profile was.

As I began to address his questions my child was no longer satisfied with knowing her just as donor #153. He gave her a name. A made up one, but a name nonetheless. He was and still is intrigued by the fact that her family is from Norway and England. He wonders if he inherited her artistic abilities, his incredible intellect, and his height. He wonders if he looks like her at all. All very reasonable questions coming from a child who is interested in his roots.

Taking all this into account I contacted my clinic and shared with them my son’s desire to know more about his donor. An adult photo. A name. Something. I also had a desire to know who she was, to perhaps even meet her. I wanted the opportunity to hug her, and say “thank you” for the most wonderful gift in the world that she gave to me – my son.

In a perfect world everything would have worked the way I wanted it to. They would have contacted the egg donor, she would have contacted me, we would have met, and she might have met my son. However, that’s not what happened. Our clinic was nice enough when they told me no, but it was still a huge disappointment. I understood their reasons. All parties entered into an agreement of anonymity. We had to respect her privacy just as she respected out. For us to barge into her life now would be inappropriate and possibly damaging to her. And at the end of the day I certainly didn’t want that.

And so here I am almost 10 years later the founder of an organization that provides support and education for parents and parents to be who are growing their families through egg donation. I find myself needing support and feeling like I am missing the mark as a parent because I can’t provide answers for my child.

Had I known ten years ago I would be feeling the way I do today about anonymous egg donation I think I would have waded through the uncertainty and faced my insecurities head on and selected a known egg donor.

It’s safe to say I have come full circle.

Anonymous Egg Donation, Semi Known Egg Donation, Known Egg Donation

I have been reading with great interest about those of who are meeting their egg donors. And I applaud them for that because that’s the best choice for them and their family. After much thought and reflection my feelings about all of this are pretty simple – (and please realize this is just coming from the perspective of a mother who already has child via this process and who is clearly deeply established and rooted as a mother. I am not a therapist, psychologist, or a psychiatrist, nor do I pretend to ever be one – this is from a lay perspective.) Clearly when we embark upon egg donation as a way to create or grow our families, it’s not something we just decided upon on the spur of the moment. We as women have either known for a very long time that we will never have children without help, or a diagnosis was thrust upon us as we were trying to have a child – regardless of how we learned that egg donation was the path that we needed to take to become parents it took some time to sink and become a reality. The feelings that we feel are individual. I felt initially shame like I did something to cause it. Was it my lifestyle as a 20 something ( I partied a lot ), was it my secret vendetta against my ex-boyfriends mother who I hated, had I pissed God off, exposed myself to chemicals unknowingly, the list goes on and on. When I learned about egg donation I really thought it was something science fiction like out of star trek – I thought it was weird and wonderful and scary. However, along with all of this came grief.

The grief that each of us experiences is incredibly individual. Some women grieve long and hard, while others don’t seem to grieve much at all. Grief comes in spurts at the weirdest time for some, and sadly for others even after their children are born "it’s constantly in the forefront as a reminder of how their body failed them" (direct quote from a mom).

My point is that this process is individual for each and every family. There are lots of dynamics involved, lots of feelings involved, and lots of stuff involved. There’s no right way or wrong way to feel about any of it. If someone had said to me back in 1999 you will meet your egg donor first, have a meal with her, and you two will get to know one another -- I would have said “Oh Hell No”. I was scared, and insecure. I was angry. Angry my body didn’t work like it was supposed to, scared of the process, scared that I was spending 25k back then and it wouldn’t work, scared that I wouldn’t be a good mother, insecure that my husband would like the egg donor more than me (let’s face it her genetics were helping create a baby, and I didn’t understand back then how much my contribution would be), and I didn’t want the egg donors face to take up my head space. And so when my clinic said we do anonymous egg donation I didn’t question it. And any communication I had with my egg donor through my cycle was monitored by the clinic.

When you embark upon an egg donation cycle regardless of whether it’s anonymous donation, or semi anonymous donation, or known egg donation those choices have to be based on what is good for you and your family. I don’t want anyone to feel like they have harmed their children, or wrecked their children because they chose anonymous egg donation. We clearly know that’s not the case. Those women who have had children via egg donation 15-20 years ago who didn’t have a choice and had to go through an anonymous egg donation cycle have perfectly fine, healthy, well adjusted and amazing kids who are now perfectly fine, healthy, well adjusted adults who are amazing members of society. It all goes back to the parenting – not how your kid got here.

For some women like me we didn’t have a choice when we went through our egg donation cycle. We saw a baby picture that I had to beg for, I had to trust what I read on the egg donor profile and I picked my RE’s brain incessantly about what she was like as I trusted him and his choices for me. In the end I had this incredible little boy that was meant to come to me. Would I change things now if I had the opportunity? Yes, but really only selfishly for me. (I petitioned my clinic for contact and they denied me and I understand why) Anyhow, I would like to wrap my arms around her and hug the stuffing out of her and thank her from the bottom of my heart. Meeting her or not meeting her doesn’t change my mothering capabilities or how I interact with my son. I am my child’s mother through and through not our egg donor. Our egg donor will always have a very special place in my heart and who I have a boatload of gratitude for but her job ended the day of retrieval. She didn’t sign on to have a relationship with Nick or be an extended member of our family. And my kid knows his story. He’s not walking around pining for his egg donor, nor does he feel ripped off because he doesn’t know who she is.

Other families choose anonymous egg donation purposely and that’s okay they shouldn't be judged because it was the right thing for them to do for their family. And there are those who choose semi known egg donation, or known donation where you meet your egg donor – and that’s fantastic if that’s clearly what you are comfortable with and what’s good for you and your family.

Regardless of where you are in regards to anonymous, semi known or known egg donation you have to be with a clinic or an agency that honors your wishes. You can’t be going to a clinic or agency that doesn’t offer or support open egg donation if that’s really what you want. And at the end of the day after your child is born PVED states that there is no question of whether or not the children will be "yours". It is strongly encouraged to give your child(ren ) what all children deserve--knowledge of who they are and where they came from, from a genetic perspective. It’s their right to know their origins. As one of the many DE mom’s on our list who is also a damn fine therapist said – “Your conversations with your children will be informed by your openness and willingness to embrace your child's curiosity, as well as your availability to assist them in finding whatever information they may want if they want it.”